13.12.2009 - 'A Serious Man' by Joel
Trailer 300px Michael Stuhlbarg describes his role of Larry, "Larry Gopnik is a physics professor in Minnesota in 1967 ... he is quite content at the beginning of the story ... he doesn't really question much and then one by one things start to go a little kukoo for him." It has been billed as Coen Brothers' best work by far by some though this has met with some ferocious objections. I look forward to meeting you and discuss what you made of the film. Reviews (spoiler alert -- wait until after seeing the movie) *From the official site: http://www.filminfocus.com/article/everybody_hurts__the_universal_appeal_of_the_coen_brothers *Review plus reader commentary: http://movies.nytimes.com/2009/10/02/movies/02serious.html?partner=rss&emc=rss Meeting Log Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Ludwig :) Are you here for the film discussion? Ludwig John: yes Gaya Ethaniel: Welcome, please have a seat :) Gaya Ethaniel: I'm going to give a couple of minutes more before starting. Ludwig John: ok Gaya Ethaniel: Have you seen the film yet? Ludwig John: no I did not Gaya Ethaniel: ok Gaya Ethaniel: Hi Tim :) Timbo Quan: Hello Ludwig John: hello Gaya Ethaniel: Shall we start? Timbo Quan: Gaya - whats wrong with you Avatar? Timbo Quan: ok Gaya Ethaniel: I changed it. Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Agatha :) Ludwig John: it looks funny Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks :) Agatha Macbeth: Hi Gaya Timbo Quan: Hello Agatha & John Agatha Macbeth: Hello Agatha Macbeth: I can't actually see you Gaya Gaya Ethaniel: Agatha, we are going to talk about a film. Wonder if you're here for the event. Agatha Macbeth: Yeah, is it a new thing? Gaya Ethaniel: Yes :) Agatha Macbeth: Ah Gaya Ethaniel: Please have a seat :) Gaya Ethaniel: ok we will be talking about 'A Serious Man', Coen brothers' latest film. Eliza Madrigal: Oh wow Gaya Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Eliza :) Agatha Macbeth: Hi Eliza :) Eliza Madrigal: Hi Agatha, Uli, Tim :) Agatha Macbeth: Nice dress Eliza Timbo Quan: Hello ELiza Eliza Madrigal: Thanks :) Hi Dao Uli Helendale: Hello all ;) Gaya Ethaniel: Coen brothers began making films in the 80s with a thriller Blood Simple. Timbo Quan: Hello Uli, Dao Gaya Ethaniel: They write, produce and direct films together. Uli Helendale: Hi Timbo Gaya Ethaniel: I'm not sure if any of you are familiar with Coen brothers' works. Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Dao :) Dao Yheng: Hi! (sorry, slow rez -- hopefully I'll see seats soon) Gaya Ethaniel: :) Gaya Ethaniel: This film personally took me to my childhood, reading fables from Talmud, being the whole film structured as a story. Gaya Ethaniel: So I think it's fitting to ask your opinions about the opening quote. Gaya Ethaniel: "Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” by a famous medieval French rabbi Rashi Gaya Ethaniel: Did you find this quote relevant to the story? Dao Yheng: Very -- and also relevant to the kinds of advice the three rabbis were giving Gaya Ethaniel: Please say more? Gaya Ethaniel: More information on the film is here -- http://mise-en-scene.wikia.com/wiki/13.12.2009_-_%27A_Serious_Man%27_by_Joel_%26_Ethan_Coen Uli Helendale: I found that things often didn't have an explanation, a cause. There was a great deal of randomness in the events of the film. Maybe the quote means that things will happen that don't make sense - don't try to enfuse those things with too much meaning. Gaya Ethaniel: Indeed Uli, one often misses opportunities by seeking meanings/causes of events. Dao Yheng: yes, Dad is often looking for some explanation, but the" meaning" is found in what is there Uli Helendale: It was interesting to me that the film started with a short story from the past and I found myself looking for its meaning throughout the entire film. Uli Helendale: I think the Coen's wanted me to calm down. LOL Gaya Ethaniel: Dad I guess you are referring to the main character, Larry Gopnik. Gaya Ethaniel: :) Dao Yheng: yes Gaya Ethaniel: It is notable that the film shows a lot of Coens own background. Gaya Ethaniel: Both parents were academics and they grew up in a suburb with a large Jewish population, somewhat similar to the setting of the fable that opens the film. This was also based on a Jewish town setting. Gaya Ethaniel: I think that's why the film genuinely was funny and telling ... for me. Gaya Ethaniel: What did you make of the Yiddish fable? Dao Yheng: Actually, I couldn't make heads or tails of that one :) Gaya Ethaniel: Larry of course is dismissive of fables :) Timbo Quan: At first I was wondering if I was in the right cinema - was this the proper movie we were seeing? Gaya Ethaniel: heh :) Gaya Ethaniel: I found similarities in both stories, the fable and Larry's. Dao Yheng: woops, brb (but I am hoping someone will explain that scene to me) Gaya Ethaniel: ok Gaya Ethaniel: The wife in the fable and Larry are somewhat similar in the search of meaning. Gaya Ethaniel: That's one. Mila Greene: hi guys :) Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Mila :) Uli Helendale: Hello Mila Timbo Quan: Hello Mila Agatha Macbeth: Hello Mila Greene: oh, what happened with the bunny, gaya? :) Gaya Ethaniel: :) Mila Greene: er.. sorry, it's me - alfred :) Gaya Ethaniel: ah :) Mila Greene: yep, my first av Gaya Ethaniel: The end of fable and the Larry's story is also similar in that we as audience are not sure what happens 'next'. Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mila :) Mila Greene: and i got a scarf too :) Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Yakuzza :) Eliza Madrigal giggles...thank goodness Mila Greene: eliza :) Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone Gaya Ethaniel: :) Eliza Madrigal: Hi ya :) Agatha Macbeth: Hi Yaku Timbo Quan: Hello Yakuzza Mila Greene: i like the group's idea Gaya Ethaniel: Just for reference, a dybbuk is a malicious possessing spirit, believed to be the dislocated soul of a dead person in Jewish folklore. Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks :) Agatha Macbeth: Like a Djinn? Eliza Madrigal hasn't seen this film yet btw .. listening politely :) I do like other of their films Gaya Ethaniel: I will invite to those present to the group after the meeting for notices etc. Timbo Quan: Well at the end of the movie he was paying for that c- Uli Helendale: Thank you. Gaya Ethaniel: oh, which one have you seen Eliza? Mila Greene: what movie is this, gaya? Gaya Ethaniel: That's one way to interpret Timbo, any other thoughts? Gaya Ethaniel: http://mise-en-scene.wikia.com/wiki/13.12.2009_-_%27A_Serious_Man%27_by_Joel_%26_Ethan_Coen Gaya Ethaniel: You have a trailer on this page. Mila Greene: thank you Eliza Madrigal: Hudsucker, Raising Arisona, Oh Bro Where Art Thou... Gaya Ethaniel: Do you think the tornado is God's wrath Timbo? Timbo Quan: no I think it was a tornado Eliza Madrigal: I also saw the Charlie Rose interview of them recently...so am a little familiar Gaya Ethaniel: I see :) This one was one of the funniest films by them I felt Eliza. Eliza Madrigal: Oh good :) Gaya Ethaniel: 11:26 Timbo Quan: no I think it was a tornado -- ? Gaya Ethaniel: I also found two contrasting directions happening in the film. Timbo Quan: well don't think Tornado was particularly God's wrath - perhaps the phone call from doctor could be interpreted that way Uli Helendale: Agree Timbo...just another random occurrence, no meaning Gaya Ethaniel: I see. Gaya Ethaniel: One was how Larry life circumstances seem to spiral while advices from rabbis as he reached each wiser one got simpler. Though of course last rabbi his son gets to meet though the audience do see what he says. Gaya Ethaniel: So you feel that Larry was just riding along a tough patch of his life then Timbo? Mila Greene: ah, you got it all planned out till february, gaya :) Gaya Ethaniel: Yes :) Mila Greene: neat Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Mitsu :) Mitsu Ishii: hi Agatha Macbeth: Hello Timbo Quan: yes was a difficult period of time for him - he went asking for Answers from 'wiser' people but ultimately probably didn't really help him much Timbo Quan: hello Mitsu Mitsu Ishii: are we talking about a serious man Stephan Attenborough: good evening Gaya Ethaniel: What do you think he should have done instead? I really felt the swimming pool scene with his brother was a missed opportunity for Larry. He was really talking some sense out of own heart to Arthur. He was capable of making his way through I felt but didn't credit himself for much. Mila Greene: gah, i'm going to get spoilers now :) Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Stephan :) Gaya Ethaniel: This is unfortunately a spoiler ... sorry Mila. Agatha Macbeth: Hi David, er.....Stephan :) Mila Greene: no worries, gaya :) Stephan Attenborough: may i have a seat? Eliza Madrigal: Hello Stephan, Mitsu Gaya Ethaniel: Please :) Timbo Quan: He should have stood up a bit for himself and done what 'he' felt was right Timbo Quan: He went with the flow Gaya Ethaniel: Yes he really lives up to his repeated phrase, 'I didn't do anything!. Uli Helendale: Right! That was great. Gaya Ethaniel: I laughed a lot :) Uli Helendale: Repeatedly, he demonstrates inaction. Mitsu Ishii: sorry I missed the beginning of this we're also listening to a talk Gaya Ethaniel nods. Uli Helendale: My favorite was the record club call. Gaya Ethaniel: np Mitsu :) Gaya Ethaniel: ah yes Uli :) Uli Helendale: You still get the records and you still have to pay even when you do nothing. Dao Yheng: That was hilarious Gaya Ethaniel: heheheh Mila Greene: omg, this head banging in the trailer is disturbing :) Timbo Quan: :) Gaya Ethaniel: And Larry was keep repeating, 'but I didn't do anything.' Gaya Ethaniel: :) Mitsu Ishii: So I don't know if people have already talked about this Uli Helendale: And nonetheless, there are consequences. Mitsu Ishii: but I really loved this film Mitsu Ishii: and I thought it was trying to get across or exemplify a wisdom which wasn't apparent on the surface Dao Yheng: "but I didn't do anything" -- its a totally packed statement Mitsu Ishii: yes, that was very key too Mitsu Ishii: but also what the rabbis said Gaya Ethaniel: Indeed Uli I agree. Mitsu Ishii: which apparently seemed quite unhelpful --- was in fact trying to point at something profound in my view. Mitsu Ishii: each one getting to a deeper level Dao Yheng: first assumption is that what was happening would necessarily be caused by something he did Gaya Ethaniel: Did you notice advice got 'simpler' as we moved onto each rabbi Mitsu? Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Dao that makes sense why Larry was constantly pointing out his inaction. Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Wol :) Agatha Macbeth: Hi Wol :) Wol Euler slips quietly in at the back. Agatha Macbeth: ;) Mila Greene: woly! :) Mitsu Ishii: "React with simplicity to everything that happens to you." is I think what it is trying to get at Gaya Ethaniel: Yes the opening quote. Mitsu Ishii: the three rabbis I believe were all trying to advise Larry to do this, in their own ways Mitsu Ishii: in the last case in the form of a question via Grace Slick... Gaya Ethaniel: mhm, I don't think the writing on teeth story went down well as it could because Larry is dismissive of stories, he puts his faith in math for example. Mitsu Ishii: what do you do when everything falls apart? Agatha Macbeth: Good ol' Gracie Gaya Ethaniel: And he was already set on looking for answers ... Gaya Ethaniel: It only made more confusion in my opinion for poor Larry ... :) Mitsu Ishii: right, and that's what the story was trying to subvert in Larry, his desire to find the truth the Answer Gaya Ethaniel nods. Gaya Ethaniel: He reacts more or less same to Arthur's notebook too in some sense. Gaya Ethaniel: And of course ... in Larry's eyes Arthur is more of a failure than himself ... Mitsu Ishii: I notice in the reviews nearly everyone thinks the rabbis were portrayed as buffoons Gaya Ethaniel: oh? Mitsu Ishii: but I don't think that was the intent of the Coen Brothers Mitsu Ishii: or as spouting gibberish, etc. Gaya Ethaniel: That's surprising, I mean the reviews re: rabbis. Uli Helendale: The advice of the rabbis made me wonder how consistent their views/actions were with actual judaism. Mitsu Ishii: I was thinking, wow, the Coen Brothers really respect rabbis! Mila Greene: gaya, you should invite them next time to find out :) Gaya Ethaniel: :) Mitsu Ishii: because they were saying things far more profound than I would expect from the typical real rabbi :) Gaya Ethaniel: Well, they are Jewish after all ... :) Wol Euler: :) Uli Helendale: I saw the same same Mists...reviews that indicated that judaism had nothing to offer Larry. Gaya Ethaniel: I'm inclined to think of rabbis as wise due to my childhood stories from Talmud. People always go ask for advice from rabbis in the stories. Gaya Ethaniel: :) Mitsu Ishii: but the review posted on the Coen Brothers' site didn't take the view Mitsu Ishii: I assume the fact that they posted that review on their site indicates they approve of that reviewer's interpretation :) Uli Helendale: Larry seemed to be looking not for wisdom, but for instructions. Gaya Ethaniel: Well, wasn't it telling how rabbi Marshak didn't see Larry? Mitsu Ishii: yes I think so Gaya Ethaniel: One can see that as the rabbi 'not being helpful' or allowing Larry to search for his own answers. Gaya Ethaniel: Larry went, 'he doesn't look busy'. That made me laugh for a while ... :) Mitsu Ishii: they were trying to help, and maybe they actually did subconsciously Mitsu Ishii: Larry did seem to be changed a bit over time Gaya Ethaniel: No probably because he decided what he wanted to find out/hear regarding all problems he was having. Timbo Quan: I think the Rabbi's just left Larry more confused Gaya Ethaniel: None of answers from rabbis fitted this. Uli Helendale: Yes, Larry did take action at the end of the film. Gaya Ethaniel: Yes he got more and more confused ... that's true Tim. Mitsu Ishii: after Larry saw the first rabbi he said to the lawyer he was trying a different perspective Gaya Ethaniel: Like a parrot ... Mitsu Ishii: so I read that as a hint that he had been helped a little by the first rabbi, but he was still confused Mitsu Ishii: but in a way the film wasn't so much about Larry as it is about us Mitsu Ishii: the viewers Gaya Ethaniel: I wonder if Larry really considered what the first rabbi said. Mitsu Ishii: the Coen Brothers were being rabbis to the audience Gaya Ethaniel: Hence the ending? Uli Helendale: Good question Gaya...something about simplicity there I think. Mitsu Ishii: yes, I loved the ending too Gaya Ethaniel: Receive with simplicity the ending lol Uli Helendale: That sometime answers can come from surprising places. Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Uli, I often describe that as 'not adding'. Dao Yheng: you could take the whole movie as a critique of story telling Gaya Ethaniel: See what's there ... first and foremost. Dao Yheng: where everything is well motivated etc Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Dao? Uli Helendale: Well, the film is itself a fable, meant to teach u something. Gaya Ethaniel nods. Like the opening Yiddish fable. Gaya Ethaniel: So the ending in a way is a criticism on story telling you mean Dao? Dao Yheng: Movie ends with medical diagnosis and a hurricane Dao Yheng: these are "acts of god" but they're also things that we have no control over Agatha Macbeth: Hi Pab pablito Steampunk: Hi :) Gaya Ethaniel: Hello pablito :) We are almost at the end of our meeting but please feel free to join us. pablito Steampunk: ty pablito Steampunk: i'll sneek over to a seat Gaya Ethaniel: I think we have strong impulse to look for causes more than consequences. Dao Yheng: I think in a lot of movies, the frogs start raining down or whatever as a symbol of what has gone on before Gaya Ethaniel: Magnolia, the film? Dao Yheng: but in this movie, hurricane happens AFTER the cathartic moment (family reunited in synagogue, old rabbi gives advice to young man) Uli Helendale: Gaya, not sure I understand about the criticism of storytelling. Gaya Ethaniel: Dao is explaining I think :) Dao Yheng: Well, just a passing thought -- Gaya Ethaniel: If you're referring to the raining frog in Magnolia, I think it's a biblical reference to Exodus. Well, some compared this film to Job. Gaya Ethaniel: Before we go, any thoughts of the title? A 'Serious' Man. Gaya Ethaniel: Who does this title refer to? Larry? Stephan Attenborough: bye i have to go have a nice time! Gaya Ethaniel: I hope you enjoyed it. And those who hasn't seen, hope you go and see it. Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Stephen :) Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Gaya, nice job Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you for the interesting discussion! Agatha Macbeth: TY Gaya Gaya Ethaniel: Hope to see you all next month re: da da da Avatar! Dao Yheng: Yes, thanks gaya! Mila Greene: yes, i didn't know there's a topic for each meeting Wol Euler: :) Gaya Ethaniel: Love or hate ... let's see ... :) Dao Yheng: :) Mila Greene: but, is it only once a month, gaya? Gaya Ethaniel: Yes second Sunday each month 11 am SLT Gaya Ethaniel: Please feel free to suggest films you'd like to discuss. Mila Greene: aww.. not much :/ Gaya Ethaniel: Either to me or Dao here. Agatha Macbeth: i'll get the diary out Gaya Ethaniel: :) Dao Yheng: Maybe we can add a wiki page to collect suggestions? Uli Helendale: Great! Gaya Ethaniel: Yes a good idea, I don't know who did but already contributed to wiki. Thanks very much! Agatha Macbeth: ty Gaya :) Gaya Ethaniel: yw :) Uli Helendale: I'd love to know if anyone has an answer about the film's title. Gaya Ethaniel: Please let me know if you need walk through using wiki/creating account etc. Mila Greene: can be any movie? or you prefer recent? Gaya Ethaniel: I'd prefer to go along with current releases. Gaya Ethaniel: But let's see :) Agatha Macbeth: How recent would 'recent' be Gaya? Gaya Ethaniel: Hopefully in cinemas ... :) So we go out :) Agatha Macbeth: I'm in! :) Gaya Ethaniel: Away from keyboard ... meet friends ... etc. Agatha Macbeth: Hee hee Gaya Ethaniel: :) Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks everyone, see you again! Agatha Macbeth: C ya! Dao Yheng: bye all! Wol Euler: thanks gaya, take care. Mitsu Ishii: bye pablito Steampunk: bye ;)